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Created: 8/18/2015 9:21:45 AM
Updated: 8/30/2015 9:49:25 PM

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Game Design Suggestion for The Last Stand

Question sent to me by Johannes which are changes for the Game Design Document (GDD)

http://www.thoucurator.com/wiki/viewwiki?wikiid=44

 

 

Tested in the boardgame:


Full customizable mechs work, it's hard for the player to remember more than 5 items and abilites at the beginning. We don't need classes they choose from, it's great if the player are able to decide exactly on their own what they want to play and create their own unique class. But we should offer, expecially for Beginners Starter item combos, so they are able to just start the action without thinking too much about their item combos.

New items could be unlocked for the players from time to time, additionally we could seperate the players and the complexity of their mechs. We make for example 3 Levels. Beginner, Experienced and Pro. For each Level you can use more items and more complex items, this way new player wouldnt be overwhelmed and have a goal where they want to go. This would be some kind of tutorial.
Complexity at the start is a huge problem in Mobas, this way it could be easier, "easy to learn, hard to master" is the goal here.

The combination between mechs and a commander works great, but we have to make sure, playing commander has enough abilities and orders. He has to require as much skill as the mechs.

Design goal: Commander focus on macro game, Mechs focus on micro game.

To achieve a nice macro game for the commander he needs many different orders and abilites, he should use orders for every single mech, this way every player knows exactly what to do and the game could be interesting enough for the commander.

Design goal: Teamwork between the players and commander is the key to win the game. Players should want to follow the orders, they shouldnt be forced to do it.

Therefore the orders should always give a big bonus to the player. Example: Player A, Attack Player B. Attacking this player and killing him gives him bonus damage and bonus gold on a kill, maybe 50-100%, the players realy should be motivated to follow these orders.

Design Goal: Every mech should feel unique.

As I wrote before, no classes just unique items. The players can build their own classes.
Design Goal: Rounds should take 10-15 minutes. This way player are able to test out their mechs. There is no farming or additional items during the game with a short round the game stays interesting. (Additionally it's a trend player don't want to play more than 15 min in one session)


Focus: We should focus at first on 1 type of mechs, I suggest the landmechs. If we do well we can easily add the other types you suggested. Another point is the mode. I would focus on 1 mode to play, the capture mode. I explain why in the following part:

 

Mode: Capture
6vs6 + 1 commander each
Goal: Destroy enemy HQ
Map: Symmetric map with some capture points
Each base has a undestrutable shield. If you captured more points than your opponent their shield gets smaller and smaller. Until you destroy the shield and are able to attack the opposing HQ.

This way we could force little teamfights, some pauses for the players and a big Finale.

Another point is, the commander can give more specific order, not only attack this player. For example: Capture, hold, Defend, Retreat and so on.


Things I still have to test in the boardgame:

                How many items, abilites and Orders do we need?
                How big should the map be, and how many capture points do we need?

 

Thanks,
James Fleming



Thanks,
James Fleming 
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Created: 8/25/2015 3:58:51 AM
Updated: 5/20/2017 1:44:58 PM

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@James
Suggestion for the in game store problem:

Players are able to collect money, but they won't collect it for themselves, they collect it for the commander.
Additionally to the abilities and orders the commander is able to upgrade/buy items for the players. He decides how and who he wants to upgrade. This way the players will work together with the commander and the players don't have to think about the strategies and tactics. 

 



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Created: 8/20/2015 11:55:27 AM
Updated: 5/20/2017 1:44:58 PM

Game Producer

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You're totally right, I might come up with some suggestions soon.




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Created: 8/20/2015 11:51:16 AM
Updated: 3/14/2021 3:36:36 PM

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@Johannes I do see your point, however if we don't have an in-game store then we should think of something for the end user to work towards.  Like in DOTA the end user works to try earn more money to buy better stuff or change tactic in the game.  If we take that away what will the end user do to try out preform the enemy PVP or PVE?  We want to get give them a motive for what they need to do to win.  IMO


Thanks,
James Fleming



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James Fleming 
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Created: 8/20/2015 11:13:41 AM
Updated: 5/20/2017 1:44:58 PM

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@James
I'm not quite sure if a ingame shop is a good thing. That way last stand is nearly the same as other mobas and additionally it requires so much work.
What would be the benefit of it? I think mostly progression during a round, something we could also do in a other ( more unique) and engaging way.




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Created: 8/19/2015 8:55:55 AM
Updated: 3/14/2021 3:36:36 PM

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more like in dota


Thanks,
James Fleming



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James Fleming 
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Created: 8/19/2015 4:01:43 AM
Updated: 5/20/2017 1:44:58 PM

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So there is an ingame shop like in dota? Or a item shop in the bay?




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Created: 8/18/2015 9:45:06 PM
Updated: 3/14/2021 3:36:36 PM

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The customizing will come from the Pilot, Firmware, & in game items you purchase as the game progresses.

The arcade style is so we dont make it overly complex like MWO

The release of the game (To the public) will have most if not all the feature talked about in the GDD.  We are starting on development on the 1v1 once that is down we will move to the commander.

As far as the other ideas and design goal of this document and the last one I think they are headed in the right direction.


Thanks,
James Fleming



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James Fleming 
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Created: 8/18/2015 9:11:30 PM
Updated: 5/20/2017 1:44:58 PM

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@James
Thanks for the review.
1-3.Okey the point with the classes is a good one, didnt think about it.
Reading the GDD I thought its one of the main features to customize very much

5. But why an arcade game? I cant see much progression in this type of game wouldnt it be boring?

6. Starting with 1v1 means no commander? Therefore one of the main features and uniques would be left out.?

What are with my other suggestions and goals, you like them so far?




Awards: Acquired more then 40 hours logged Acquired more then 120 objective in the role 5 Contribute to an agenda that is not yours more than 7 hours. Created 9 blogs or more in 18 month period. Has remained a member on standby for more then 28 days without quitting. Has not received a System Automation notice in over 9 months. Created 3 blogs or more in 6 month period. Member receives newsletter.
Created: 8/18/2015 4:16:12 PM
Updated: 3/14/2021 3:36:36 PM

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Ok after reviewing this here are my thoughts.

  1. Full customizable mechs: We went with classes because it is a lot easier to design a mech with a set of weapons as a class then trying to change it in game.  So if a tank mech has a rocket launcher on it and you want ot replace it with a laser this would prove to be difficult in code as you would have to attach a model of a laser to the mech and make it stay with it as it moves as an attachment.  So the basic thought is pre-designed mech we design and release a new one ever so often.  The items you buy in the game and spec for the pilot and firmware are add-in bonus you go into the match with.
  2. Each mech will have a set of 4 main ability hard coded to the mech no changing them, you may only modify the status of them by buying items.
  3. Each mech will have to selected abilities like jump jets and go fast.. idk something selected before each match which can be changed ever round if so desired.
  4. Every mech should feel unique.: I agree so we will design each one to have its on abilities and stats.  Then you add in the pilot & firmware and even if you have the same mech its different based on the tech tree of these to areas
  5. We want to keep the arcade like feel to the game I would like match to range from 15 min to 1:30 min depending how good the other team is.
  6. Mode Capture: This would be a good PVP/PVE concept but i think we should start with 1v1 PVP at first since this is where most the game play will be and without it we dont really have a game.  This however will not be until the entire GUI is done.

Thanks,
James Fleming



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James Fleming 
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Created: 8/18/2015 2:26:11 PM
Updated: 5/20/2017 1:44:58 PM

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In the boardgame I just have a linear skill tree right now, you can upgrade each ability 1-3 times. Since we dont know how many abilities, items, level and stuff we have we dont have a specific skill tree. Maybe I figure something out soon. Maybe a "classical" one for now.

 




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Created: 8/18/2015 1:01:18 PM
Updated: 3/14/2021 3:36:36 PM

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@Matthew As far as a spec tree of any kind we only have what is on the GDD so far.  Make sure that the GDD is your source for information this forum post here is not the master copy of the GDD.  This is a discussion of changes to it as Johannes work on the GDD and finds issue or suggestions.

http://www.thoucurator.com/wiki/viewwiki?wikiid=44

 

Thanks,
James Fleming



Thanks,
James Fleming 
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Created: 8/18/2015 12:14:28 PM
Updated: 9/25/2018 3:04:30 AM

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I think all this sounds awesome- do we have any idea what a tech tree would look like? Or ability/skill tree?I'm sorry if I'm behind,I haven't seen info this specific.Also, design nuts and bolts are extremely helpful to me as a writer as I can write that right into the story.The more I see of this design the more I like it-it's making a break from the MOBA beaten path and addressing the problems.



-Matthew-

Awards: Acquired more then 40 hours logged Acquired more then 120 objective in the role 5 Contribute to an agenda that is not yours more than 7 hours. Created 9 blogs or more in 18 month period. Has remained a member on standby for more then 28 days without quitting. Has not received a System Automation notice in over 9 months. Created 3 blogs or more in 6 month period. Member receives newsletter.
Created: 8/18/2015 10:44:19 AM
Updated: 3/14/2021 3:36:36 PM

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I will get to this later tonight I want to talk about a few things listed here.  Also Johannes will you update the GDD on the wiki with the current changes that have already been made please.

http://www.thoucurator.com/wiki/viewwiki?wikiid=44


Thanks,
James Fleming



Thanks,
James Fleming 
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Awards: Acquired more then 40 hours logged Acquired more then 120 objective in the role 5 Contribute to an agenda that is not yours more than 7 hours. Created 9 blogs or more in 18 month period. Has remained a member on standby for more then 28 days without quitting. Has not received a System Automation notice in over 9 months. Created 3 blogs or more in 6 month period. Member receives newsletter.

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